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« Welcome to the new blog of Jim Robbins! | Main | Your place in the Story »
Sunday
Nov022008

" a little lower than...."

I want to respond here to my own post because I’m a bit conflicted. Some of you know that the verse “a little lower than the heavenly beings (or angels) can be rendered, “a little lower than God.”

I chose to go with the “little lower than the angels” version, but realize that it may lead to the conclusion that humans are not as esteemed in the Kingdom as angels. I don’t believe this to be true. Humanity is, in fact, the pinnacle of God’s creation, and redeemed persons are the recipients of his Holy Spirit. This cannot be said of angels, no matter how glorious and privileged they may be.

The perspective I wanted to give was one that would elevate humanity -- especially redeemed humanity -- to its proper place and value in the Kingdom.
So — bottom line of the post, be stubborn in your refusal to think less of yourself than your Father has made you. And…ask him what your new name is.

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Reader Comments (12)

Jim,
As you can probably guess, I fully agree with you. We, as humans, are created in God's image. We are beautifully and wondrously made. The only thing I can think of regarding this verse is that either: 1) it was translated ineffectively, 2) it was referring to the fact that we have not all yet received our glorified bodies.

Great question/post, Jim.

Blessings,
~Amy :)
http://amyiswalkinginthespirit.blogspot.com

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterAmy

Jim, Thank you the reminder that we are IMPORTANT to our Heavenly Papa. If we could get that truth down into spirits we would not have hundred of people walking around with dropped heads and "beating there chests" in anger at GOD. He is so wonderful and good.

Thank you for the timely reminder. Papa is so Good

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLennart

Thanks Amy! Yeah, translations can be tricky. That's why Wesley said the best interpreter of Scripture is Scripture -- meaning that we look at the whole testimony of God as the context for any particular verse. Macro informs micro. Good thought about glorified bodies.

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim Robbins

Thanks, Lennart. Good insight on the translation. By the way, that quote from Psalms (" a little lower than...") gets even trickier when you tie it in to Hebrews 2:7-9!

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim

Thanks Amy. Translations can be pretty tricky. That's why John Wesley recommended we look at the whole of God's word to inform the particular of his word. Macro informs micro. Otherwise, we can get really hung up on seemingly contradictory passages and the like. I know that's been helpful for me as I come across passages that would seem to flush everything I thought I knew. (Sometimes, that can be a good thing -- challenging entrenched assumptions.) But bottom line for me, the whole informs the parts.

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim

Hi Jim,

Great way to put it. I've been thinking about this, and the other day I began a comment on your other post about how it may be even better than "angels" that we were created a little lower than, due to the Hebrew word being "Elohim" in the passage from Psalms. But then the Greek word used in the book of Hebrews 2 is "angelous," in both verses 7 and 9, and I decided it might get a little complicated in trying to interpret and expound on all this. :) So I really like the way you responded with your own thoughts here. Nice and simple!

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJoel B.

Thanks, Joel. Let me toss this one out to you: What do you do with "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." (Hebrews 2:9). I have my own thoughts (which of course, I get directly from God himself through dictation.) :)

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim

Jim,

Hebrews 2:7, which quotes from the Psalm, and Hebrews 2:9, in which the writer expounds on it, kind of trips me up - in the sense that I can see several different ways to try to explain what it means... LOL. The word in the Psalm is "Elohim," which can mean "god" (lower-case) or "angel," but in one of my Bible dictionaries it says that when contrasted with "man," it means God Himself, and that seems to be the case with this verse. "You have made him (man) a little lower than Elohim (God)."

But in Hebrews 2, the word in both cases is "angelous," which means "messenger" or "angel," not "God."

What I see happening in Hebrews 2 is that the writer is making this out to be a Messianic Psalm, saying that Jesus was made a little lower than the "angelous." But I personally don't understand why the Hebrew is Elohim, but the writer used angelous in Greek.

Somehow, in His death, Jesus was made lower than _____, and in doing so was "crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. As the passage goes on, we find that Jesus calls us "brethren," and I think this all has to do with it as well.

Anyway... what I'm writing here is what I started to write before, and perhaps you can see why I abandoned it! I don't think it's this complicated at all, but I thought I'd show you where my thoughts had led me. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

November 2, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJoel B.

Hey Joel,
I don't actually have any brilliant wisdom to impart here, but I do think you're on to something when you say, "As the passage goes on, we find that Jesus calls us 'brethren...'"

There seems to be an attempt to tie Jesus (despite his preeminence over the angels, which the author is clear on in the first chapter), to his shared humanity with his brothers and sisters.

The way the writer does this (I think) is through the phrase, "a little lower than the angels" -- using it both of humanity and of Jesus, linking them in a shared experience.

In fact, one commentator says that it is better to understand "a little lower than the angels" (in its application to Jesus) as reading, "a little lower than the angels for a little while." His humiliation and incarnation were temporary - not affecting his overall preeminence over the created order.

I think the writer of Hebrews, by identifying Jesus with suffering humanity, does so for a couple reasons:
1. to encourage his brothers and sisters to remain steadfast (2: 1-4)
2. to emphasize his affectionate identification with them -- he's not ashamed to call them brothers.
3. to demonstrate to his brothers who are teetering in faith that glorification and restoration come through suffering; as his own did on their behalf.

Just my two cents -- phew, I think I need a cigar break!

November 3, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim Robbins

Great thoughts on all this! I was gonna come back last night with a couple more thoughts, but it was pretty late so I waited till today. My thoughts would echo what you shared about the commentator who said it's better to understand it as "a little lower than the angels for a little while."

The Psalm talks about mankind as "a little lower than (whatever the proper translation is)," and then Hebrews says Jesus was made "a little lower than..." as well, meaning, to me, that He was made like us, for a period of time.

I agree with your reasons for Jesus being identified with human suffering. I really do think, in general, that the point of the passage in Psalms is to lift man up to a high status that is much greater than "worms" (and I hope and pray that more and more people see this!) and the point of the Hebrews passage is to show how Jesus became one of us and identified with us.

November 3, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJoel B.

I would also add that that's just part of the story, of course. After coming as one of us, and tasting death, He then rose again and the Holy Spirit made us alive together with Him!

November 3, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJoel B.

Hey Joel,
I, too, am tired of worm theology. It's done great damage to the Body of Christ. I also think that God's self-humiliation is an outflow of his glory. They are not opposed to each other. Honor through humility, glorification through identification, preeminence through emptying. It's the juxtaposition of apparent opposites, allowing each "opposite" to be redefined by the other half.

November 3, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJim Robbins

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